Customer Reviews for Highlife® Vanguard

Vanguard

Highlife® Vanguard

  • 6 adults
  • 7'3" x 7'3" x 36" / 2.20m x 2.20m x .91m
  • 335 gallons / 1,275 liters
Average Customer Rating:
4.353 out of 5
4.4
 out of 
5
(232 Reviews)
Open Ratings Snapshot
Rating breakdown 232 reviews
5 Stars
163
4 Stars
30
3 Stars
13
2 Stars
10
1 Star
16
Customer Reviews for Vanguard
Review 181 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
4 / 5
4 / 5

My new Hot Springs vanguard

Customer avatar
boots73
from Mesa, AZ
Age:Over 65
PostedJuly 26, 2020
Nice tub but moto-massages blow my wife out. No way to adjust force. Had to purchase suction handholds. Chiller does not keep set temp (92F). I enjoy tub and find water care easy. Quality of workmanship is excellent.
Comfort:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Quality:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Value:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
By Customer Service Hot Spring MariaFebruary 1, 2021
Thank you for posting your review. I am thrilled that you are enjoying your Vanguard! Look for my email regarding adjusting the moto-massage through the comfort control lever. Happy Hot-Tubbing. hotspring_brand
0points
1of 2voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 182 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
3 / 5
3 / 5

Lemon?

Customer avatar
Ingrid
from Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
Age:45-54
PostedJuly 12, 2020
We have owned our HotSpring Spa for about 18 months - 2018 Vanguard Model with salt water system, and have had a lot of issues.
The foot jets broke 3 times, a pump failed, the Moto Massage jets in one corner seat broke and literally the evening after this was fixed, the Moto Massage jet in the other corner broke.
We had the hardest time getting the water balanced for about the first six months until we finally realized the the salt cell must have been faulty from the get go, because it completely failed at that point. Recently one of the pumps made the same sound as it did before it failed last time. So, I am expecting it to fail again soon.
Currently we are waiting for a new side panel, because one of the seat LEDs broke and the entire wire harness needs to be replaced. In the process the dealer expects the side panel to break. The hot tub has had the inoperative (broken) Moto Massage jet for about 6 weeks now. The dealer says that we will get the first side panel that will become available and then they will come back and repair the Moto massage jet, and the LED wire harness.
The spa came with a 5 year warranty and all these broken parts are covered under warranty, but we pay a $70 call out fee for each warranty service call. I am worried about what else will fail after the warranty runs out....
We waited 15+ years to finally be able to afford THE HotSpring Spa we had our eyes on, and this experience is very disappointing. We expected better quality from a HotSpring Spa.
We are wondering is it normal for a fairly new hot tub to have so many problems? Is the saltwater system causing all these problems? The dealer makes it sound like we are the only HotSpring Spa owner that has any problems with their spa. OR do we simply have a LEMON? Either way, we are very disappointed. Not what we expected from a HotSpring Spa.
Comfort:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Quality:  
2 / 5
2 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
2 / 5
2 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Value:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy VanessaCustomer Service July 23, 2020
Oh, Wow! That is not a typical Hot Spring experience. I am sorry that you have had to deal with this. I want to help and will email you. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to us. I look forward to working with you soon.
+4points
4of 4voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 183 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
1 / 5
1 / 5

Salt water chlorine generator doesn’t work

Customer avatar
Bonedoc23
from Spencer, Ia
Age:45-54
PostedJuly 12, 2020
Bought a brand new hot tub from a very reputable dealer and cannot fix the chlorine generator. Have had the hot tub one month and had the dealer out here 4 times to try and fix the problem. They have been great but the product hasn’t worked. Replaced the disposable plate. Then replaced the motherboard and still won’t generate chlorine. Calling them Monday to see what the next step is but very frustrating when you pay extra for the convenience and it doesn’t work
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
2 / 5
2 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
1 / 5
1 / 5
Value:  
1 / 5
1 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy VanessaCustomer Service July 23, 2020
I am sorry to hear that your salt system has not been working. I want to help. Please look for an email from me. Thank you for reaching out, and I look forward to working with you soon.
+4points
4of 4voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 184 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
3 / 5
3 / 5

Freshwater Salt Care System - Cartridges DO NOT LAST 4 months

Customer avatar
Kayakkev
from St George, UT
Age:Over 65
PostedJuly 4, 2020
I purchased and had this Vanguard spa installed December 2019 with the Freshwater Salt Care System. My dealer told me that the Salt Cartridges would have to be changed every four (4) months. After 1 month, the initial cartridge had to be replaced. I contacted Hot Springs support and made numerous changes to my water per their advice and it helped and the new cartridge lasted almost 2 months. I had the setting set at 8 and I rarely had to add Chlorine and it works real good, but the third cartridge only lasted about 6 weeks. So I have had this spa for 7 months and have gone thru 4 cartridges. Support did send me a free 3 pack of cartridges, thank goodness because they are real expensive. Have tried to contact tech support again to see if my Freshwater controller should be changed based on the number of cartridges I am going thru, but no support during the COVID 19 Pandemic. Otherwise I really like the spa, but there is no way these cartridges last for 4 months. I might not be able to afford the salt water system for too much longer.
Comfort:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Quality:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
2 / 5
2 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Value:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy VanessaCustomer Service July 13, 2020
Thank you for your feedback. You are right; the salt cartridge should last four months, something needs to be adjusted. I will contact you, and we will figure this out. We want to make sure you are enjoying your spa to the fullest.
Please look for an email from me.
Thank you
+4points
4of 4voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Read comment (1)
Comments (1)
Customer avatar
JD 123
New York, NY
Freshwater System is great when working properly
Posted July 21, 2020
We had a similar problem with our 2019 Envoy that was delivered last Fall. The first cartridge lasted 3 months, the second one lasted 4 weeks the third lasted only 6 weeks. We also found that we constantly had to add granule chlorine. The water got cloudy after 6 months and had to use spa clarifier to clear it up.
I didn't know what was wrong. We barely used the spa once a week because of the unusually long winter. My PH was always kept between 7.2 and 7.4. Alkalinity was always between 40 and 60. Salt level was kept between 1750 and 2000. The calcium hardness was always at 50 because the water comes right out of the faucet at that level in NYC. I often kept my salt system set to 5-6 because I was afraid that if I set it higher, the cartridge would fail even sooner. However, even when set higher, it didn't seem to produce enough chlorine. I rinsed the filters often and cleaned them thoroughly every 6 weeks.
My dealer said that Watkins was experiencing problems with a bad batch of newly designed Freshwater cartridges so they sent me a new 3-pack for free. I was glad they did because they are very expensive. My dealer's service tech also said that the water never lasts a full year like the salespeople promise. He recommends changing the water every 6-8 months with a salt water system and every 3-4 months with a regular chlorine/bromine setup.
I flushed the spa with Ahhsome spa cleaner and was amazed at the amount of gunk that came out of the jets. I drained, cleaned the shell with vinegar/water mix and refilled the spa. I inserted the new cartridge and it has been working great for 3 months now. I hope it makes it to 4!
I also changed my water care a bit even though what I had been doing was within the parameters of what the owner's manual recommends.
I now keep the water PH between 7.5 and 7.8 to ensure the alkalinity is always at a min of 80 for added stability I make sure that my salt level is just below 1750 after add water to the spa because as the water level drops a bit due to evaporation, the salt level rises to the recommended 1750. I also use non chlorine MPS shock more often since I found great deals online for it. I now keep the salt system set to 8 and I ALWAYS set the auto clean feature to go on daily with all the jets open when I'm not using the spa for more than 5 days. I use the boost function once a week and only add a small amount of chlorine granules before going on vacation.
Now I find that my Freshwater Salt System is maintaining the perfect amount of chlorine with little effort. The water is crystal clear and feels great. I think the minor adjustments I made to my water care helped with the water quality but I do believe the original set of cartridges were defective. They should last 4 months as promised, especially when the water care is within the parameters of the owner's manual. I just hope that the new cartridges last 4 months. If they don't then I firmly believe that Watkins should dramatically lower the price to replace them.
Thankfully, the system is now working as it should. It is far better than traditional chlorine setups. The spa water has a pleasant scent and is very relaxing to soak in. Once you own a properly functioning Highlife series Hot Springs Spa, you will find it difficult to enjoy lesser spas, especially ones in resorts or cruise ships. So far we are very happy with our Envoy and hope Watkins continues to back their products up.
+1point
1of 1voted this comment as helpful.
Share this comment:
Facebook Twitter
Comments (1)
Read comment (1)
Review 185 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
3 / 5
3 / 5

10 yr old Vanguard

Customer avatar
MikeK
from Agawam MA
Age:55-65
PostedMay 30, 2020
I had no issues until year 8.....electronics and leaks. Decided to fix them and see if I could get 5 more years.......the following year more leaks. I hope to trade it in and see if the quality has improved
Comfort:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Quality:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Value:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy VanessaCustomer Service June 9, 2020
Hello 10 yr old Vanguard
Thank you for taking the time to post your review. I am sorry to hear that your spa is n need of service. I would like to work with you and see how I can help.
Please look for an email from me. Thank you.
+3points
3of 3voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 186 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
1 / 5
1 / 5

HotSpring Vanguard

Customer avatar
ChrisB
from Central Michigan
Age:55-65
User submitted photo
PostedMay 29, 2020
Beware! Very important, if you live in a cold climate, a service visit to your home may be up to several weeks, which means your hot tub must be drained upon failure, if it is outside, and it will fail, then filled again for service, which is not easy in below freezing temperatures. My Vanguard Hot Tub has been inoperable alot. When it works, it's fantastic. This equipment has not been reliable for us, and very difficult to get serviced. Additionally, Watkins will not share the diagnostic information. Neither will the Watkins/HotSprings distributors. This means you will have great difficulty in diagnosing the error yourself. The owners manual and online information lacks the information required to diagnose control circuits.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
1 / 5
1 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Value:  
1 / 5
1 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy VanessaCustomer Service June 1, 2020
Thank you for taking the time to share your feedback. I am sorry that this has been your experience. Many of our customers live in cold climates like Canada and Alaska and have been able to hot tub without issue.
I would like to see what I can do to help improve your experience.
The best way to diagnosed a spa issue is in person. Watkins provides tutorial videos and instructions regarding spa care and operations. Safety is paramount, and when working with water and electricity, you want to make sure you have a certified technician providing service.
I look forward to working with you soon.
+6points
6of 6voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 187 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Love our Spa!

Customer avatar
Chip
from Elmira, NY
Age:45-54
PostedApril 21, 2020
Absolutely love the Spa and the good folks at Hesselson's! Easy to maintain and keep the water balanced, an absolute joy to use. It is well worth the money. Very relaxing and comfortable.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy Customer CareMay 11, 2020
We're so happy you're loving your spa and had a great dealer experience. We hope you enjoy all of the wellness benefits your spa has to offer!
0points
0of 0voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 188 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Vanguard

Customer avatar
Sandy
from The Village’s, Florida
Age:55-65
PostedApril 10, 2020
Love the quality and efficiency.
A+++. Easy care, salt system works well.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy Customer CareMay 6, 2020
Thanks for your A+++ rating! We hope you enjoy your Hot Spring spa!
0points
0of 0voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 189 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Love it! Great investment

Customer avatar
Katym28
from Chambersburg, PA
Age:25-34
User submitted photo
PostedApril 8, 2020
I've been wanting a hot tub for a few years and knew I wanted a salt system. I didn't have much experience and wasn't sure what questions to ask but my local dealer and salesman were great getting me set up with the perfect spa! I live alone so it's a great size to use when by myself or if I have company or a few friends over. I use it almost daily to relax and decompress in shortly before bed each night. It has been incredibly simple to maintain so far and I love the reduced maintainence with the salt system. I wouldn't change a thing!
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy Customer CareMay 6, 2020
Thank you for sharing your experience! It's great that your dealer was able to assist you with finding your perfectly matched hot tub!
+2points
2of 2voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 190 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Moto Massage ROCKS!

Customer avatar
Tex
from Midwest
Age:55-65
PostedFebruary 26, 2020
Love the moto-massage seats!! That up and down massage action is the absolute best seat for sore backs and an all over back massage!
Only wish is for our Vanguard to have a 3rd corner deep seat. Fresh water salt system is nice not having add chlorine all the time. Still have to test water regularly and adjust ph, hardness, etc but not having to mess with chlorine is good. Well insulated including the cover that will accumulate several inches of snow and not melt from heat loss!
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
0points
0of 0voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 191 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Love it!

Customer avatar
Ausdorf14
from Grand Rapids, MI
Age:45-54
PostedFebruary 7, 2020
We absolutely love the tub! It’s so easy to set up and so relaxing to use. Our only issue is the salt system. We can’t seem to get the water in its correct measurements. We will figure it out!!
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
2 / 5
2 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Value:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
0points
1of 2voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 192 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
2 / 5
2 / 5

Leak after 7 years with a broken control panel

Customer avatar
JLIU
from Bellevue, WA
Age:55-65
User submitted photo
User submitted photo
PostedFebruary 6, 2020
Salt water system is easy to maintain however not friendly to the electronic circuits. The relay board was replaced after 5 year of use. Now the control panel is blank screen. Dealer is telling me it will cost me more than 1.2K to replace the board. Unknown leak may be due to salt water corrosion. Multiple repairs still did not stop the leak.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
1 / 5
1 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Value:  
1 / 5
1 / 5
Response from HotSpringBy VanessaCustomer Service May 26, 2020
I am sorry to see that your are unhappy with your spa. We know water chemistry can play a part in rusty jets and leaking seals. I would like to work with you and see how I can help.
Thank you for taking the time to post your review and I look forward to working with you soon.
0points
0of 0voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 193 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

We've had the Vanguard for 3 months now.... LOVE it!!!

Customer avatar
RandC
from Charleston, SC
Age:55-65
PostedFebruary 1, 2020
The jets are powerful and you get a full massage. We have the saltwater system and Im not convinced that it reduces the amount of maintenance require to keep the water balanced and clean. Of course that could just be me learning the system. But so far I do as much maintenance with a salt water system as I did with my previous spa with out the system.
I will say I've never felt itchy after getting out of this tub.
It is an expensive tub, but If I do believe they are the best in the business.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
+1point
2of 3voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 194 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Managing Expectations

Customer avatar
Dan986
from Grand Rapids, MI
Age:55-65
PostedDecember 23, 2019
We chose Hot Spring based on resounding endorsements from trusted and knowledgeable friends. They were right. The features and strength of the jets make for great massages and are all that we could ask for. The quality of the product has met all expectations. I hope that the premium price also reflects the longevity of the hot tub. When shopping, I didn’t give much value to the remote control. Now that we’re using the hot tub, the remote has been a nice convenience to have in and out of the tub. The challenge has been the water chemistry. We have extremely hard water. Multiple trips to the store for water tests, vanishing act, stain and scale, bromine and more bromine, and constant tinkering has finally got us to where the water should be. We are first-time hot tub owners and didn’t expect this much of a challenge. I anticipate that the next round will be easier and that we’ll get dialed-in eventually. We also got our first electric bill and it is 50% higher than last year. Not a deal killer given how much we like our hot tub. I just would have preferred a more realistic idea of the cost of running the tub. It could be that we have just been using it a lot in Michigan winter weather. Time to take a dip.
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Value:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
+1point
1of 1voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 195 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
4 / 5
4 / 5

Our second Hot Spring tub

Customer avatar
Duke
from Pensylvania
Age:Over 65
PostedDecember 2, 2019
This is our second Vanguard Hot Spring tub.
Our first Vanguard lasted 6 years.
The overall look and feel of this tub is excellent.
Comfort:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Quality:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Value:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
+1point
1of 1voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 196 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Great purchase Great dealer

Customer avatar
Marine
from Trail Oregon
Age:Over 65
PostedOctober 16, 2019
Would recommend to anyone looking for a great spa. Beyond expetations
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
By Customer Service Hot Spring JanetOctober 17, 2019
We are glad to hear the Vanguard spa has surpassed your expectations! hotspring_brand
0points
0of 0voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 197 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Excellent service and product

Customer avatar
Hotlanta
from Peachtree Corners, GA
Age:45-54
PostedOctober 10, 2019
This is the second Hot Springs tub I have owned. The first one I had for 18 years and I sold it with my house and it was still in excellent condition.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
By Customer Service Hot Spring JanetOctober 16, 2019
We are glad you are happy with your Vanguard spa! hotspring_brand
0points
0of 0voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 198 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

Blossom99

Customer avatar
Blossom
from Baltimore, Maryland
Age:Over 65
PostedAugust 13, 2019
This is my second HotSpring. I had the classic for 32 years. One service call entire time
Finally starting leaking so I bought the Vanguard model
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
0points
1of 2voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 199 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
4 / 5
4 / 5

We enjoy our spa

Customer avatar
Bhenn
from Idaho
Age:35-44
PostedAugust 12, 2019
We have really enjoyed our spa when we have been able to use it. The thing that has been frustrating to me is we got the salt water system so we didn't have to use the chlorine and we have had to use a lot of chlorine to get it to keep a chlorine level. We have also had to keep the system on the highest level possible to keep a chlorine level and when we use it very much at all the chlorine level drops so we end up using chlorine or enhanced shock to get it back up again. I feel like we have had to constantly fight with it to keep a chlorine level and I have contacted the store and they came and checked it and said it's all working right but it is very frustrating when your told before you buy it that it is so easy to care for and it doesn't take much and we have already used over 100.00 in extra chemicals and haven't even had it 4 months. The only other thing I would change on the spa is I would put some handles by the massagers so you can actually stay in your seat better.
Comfort:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
3 / 5
3 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
4 / 5
4 / 5
+1point
1of 1voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
Review 200 for Vanguard
Average Rating:  
5 / 5
5 / 5

vanguard is a great spa

Customer avatar
melissa406
from Neptune, NJ
Age:35-44
PostedAugust 6, 2019
My first spa ever owned and its great for relaxing and easing pain from the day. HotTubs by Hotsprings employees are knowledgeable and quick with any questions I have with my new spa. I'm a newbie at owning a spa but I can say it was an excellent purchase.
Comfort:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Quality:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Ease of Water Care:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Energy Efficiency:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
Value:  
5 / 5
5 / 5
By Customer Service Hot Spring JanetAugust 13, 2019
Congratulations on your first spa and we are glad you are enjoying your purchase! hotspring_brand
+1point
1of 1voted this as helpful.
Thank you! You have successfully submitted a comment for this review.
<<prev 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 next>>